Kevin works as a Communications Officer for a sight loss organisation in the UK. Originally from Colombia, he had to adapt to both learning assistive technology, and English, when he moved to England. This resulted in his love of languages, something which is a strength in his career.
Transcript
Holly Scott-Gardner: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Working Blind. I’m your host Holly Scott-Gardner. And on this podcast I interview blind people about their careers. Today I’m joined by Kevin Satizabal, who is a communications officer for Thomas Pocklington Trust. Hi, Kevin. Thanks for joining me.
Kevin Satizabal: Hi, Holly. Really great to be here.
Holly: Yeah, how are you today?
Kevin: I’m good. Thank you. Yeah, I’m just relaxing, taking it easy. And yeah, just, it’ll be the week soon. So getting ready for another week of work.
Holly: Oh, I know the feeling. Soon Monday, it always comes round.
Kevin: It does, the weekend flies.
Holly It definitely does. So I’d like to get started by just asking you a bit about yourself. So if you could briefly tell me about your blindness and the cause of that if you’re comfortable sharing.
Kevin: Okay, so I was born three months premature. And I was born in Popayán Colombia. And basically at the time, the technology really wasn’t very advanced. So I got put in an incubator was given too much light and oxygen, which kind of destroyed my retina and caused a condition called ROP or retinopathy of prematurity. Basically left me with light perception in one eye. And, yeah, I’ve had a few operations and things like that. But obviously, at the moment, it’s an incurable level of blindness. So I’ve been blind all my life.
Holly: And what was your education like growing up?
Kevin: A bit mixed, my education was a bit mixed growing up. Because Initially, I started studying in England, I did reception and year one. And then I went to Colombia. And that brought a lot of challenges. Because the teachers didn’t really know Braille. I kind of experienced a lot of bullying because of my visual impairment, people didn’t really understand it. And I even got that from a couple of my teachers who were like, you know, I mean, I didn’t help myself. To be fair, I was no angel. But I think part of that was, I became very defensive, because I was facing so many of those challenges. And especially because when I was younger, I was like, I felt invincible. And I felt like I can do so much stuff that my other friends can do, you know, I could ride bikes and, and all sorts of things. And, and, and I didn’t really understand it. But yeah, education was tough. And then when I was about nine years old, I came back to England again. So definitely a real mix. And I had to relearn all of my English when when I came back from Colombia after living there a few years. So like I said, it was a mixed bag. Definitely.
Holly: And what was that like being a blind person who had returned to England speaking English as a second language, but also having to contend with learning things like assistive technology?
Kevin: Yeah, assistive technology was a revelation. Because in Colombia, I was using a Braille machine, you know, a heavy kind of, you know, typical mechanical thing. And then I came to England, I got taught how to touch type. And that really revolutionized my world and really taught me about technology. And it was, it was tough again, because there was the language barrier, I was having to learn English and get myself understood. So not only was I blind, but I also couldn’t speak, speak English. So my primary years were tough as well, actually, again, a lot of misunderstanding a bit of bullying going on. But, you know, I just, I just kept plugging away. And I kept plugging away, I had a very good Learning Support Assistant, who was very creative and used to do tactile diagrams and things like that for me. So, yeah.
Holly: That’s really good to hear. I think that creativity from the teams of people who support us is so vital for us to be successful when we’re in education.
Kevin: Definitely, yeah, if it hadn’t been for, and you know, this lady is amazing. She, she learned Braille with me as well. So when she first started, she didn’t know any Braille. So we kind of learned together. And she was always really, really creative. And it just sparked my love of language, love of education, she would go above and beyond and give me extra spelling tests as well. And that really developed my language, my love of language and my love of English. And that’s one of the reasons why I think I was able to learn it back again so quickly.
Holly: That’s really, really cool to hear, especially considering that your job now relies on well, communication is at its core.
Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.
Holly: So what was it like going into secondary school after you’d been through primary school? What kind of secondary school did you go to and did you think about careers when you were in secondary school?
Kevin: So I’ve always been going to mainstream education, my parents, were thinking about me going into more specialist education. But they were kind of dissuaded against it. Because they said, you know, Kevin’s come from Colombia, I think they said, they’ve kind of thought I would thrive, thrive in mainstream education. And so that’s why I kind of stuck with it. And I went to secondary school, there was a really good support team helping disabled students. So that was really invaluable. And one thing that they did, which I thought was really good, was like, because I was VI, there was a couple of privileges that I get, like, oh, being able to go into lunch a little bit earlier, and things like that. And they asked one or two students to kind of come along with me and asked me to kind of vary the students that could come along, and help me out. So rather than giving me an LSA, they encouraged other students. And yeah, maybe first, like some of them, you knew that they were just doing it for the privileges. And very quickly, I didn’t ask them again. But then it was a really good way of just getting to know people and getting friends and stuff like that, because it kind of broke that ice. And my teacher at the very beginning was like, Look, everyone Kevin is blind. And she talked to me about this before. She’s like, are you happy to talk about it? I said, Yeah, sure. I’m all up for honesty, and being transparent. So she said to everyone, you know, this is Kevin, he’s blind. He’s happy to talk to you. And people asked me questions. And that was a really great thing, that everyone broke the barrier. And my secondary school as a consequence, my secondary school experience was so much better.
Holly: I think that’s really cool as well, that you were given control over which students came with you rather than being told, oh, well, it’s these two today. And then tomorrow, you’ll have these two. So you, like you said, you could stop asking the ones you thought were only coming with you because of the perceived perks they were getting.
Kevin: Right, exactly. I think that was really good. And it meant that I was able to, you know, build that Friendship Circle as well.
Holly: Yeah. And when you were in secondary school, moving on more to sixth form, how did you make decisions about what you were going to study and thinking about your future? And who really led you towards thinking about careers? You know, was it your family? Or was it the school? Or did it come from you?
Kevin: So, music was kind of a very big part of that. And something we haven’t touched on yet. Because as well as going to school weekends, I was doing music college, I’d got into the Royal College when I was 10 years old to do a scholarship there. So music was always in the back of my mind. I think my support teachers, my learning support assistants were the ones that, you know, really encouraged me. But it was quite a natural progression. I think I just wanted to follow the subjects I really enjoyed. I knew I really liked English. I toyed with doing history and religious studies for a long time. And eventually I went for religious studies. And then, you know, we had kind of a further education college that was partnered with my school. So it was a natural progression to finish my GCSEs and go on from there. And, you know, again, like, I really credit my learning support assistance for being encouraging. Maths, that wasn’t one of my strongest points. And one of my LSA’s literally was coming around on a Sunday to give me extra teaching because she had a maths knowledge and knew it. And that really helped me so much to get the grades that I needed to be able to progress and go on to my education. And also my parents were very supportive. I think it’s so important for parents to be supportive and work together to, to, you know, encourage your blind child to follow their dreams.
Holly: Yeah, I think that’s so true. Family Support is incredibly helpful. And honestly, I’m, like, blown away by how dedicated you must have been because not only were you in school, five days a week, you then had Music School, which is an incredible achievement in itself to win that kind of scholarship, and to be that dedicated and then to be studying maths extra on a Sunday. I was never that dedicated.
Kevin: I’m, well, you know, I when I, I did music for eight years, and I went from primary to secondary to college. And when I got to uni, I was like, oo Saturday? What do I do with a Saturday? You know, it was like a day that I’d never ever had. And, you know, Sunday was always doing homework. And yeah, I think that dedication also came at a cost because I didn’t really have much of a social life outside school. I got along with friends, but nobody ever really invited me to go out and stuff. And so I guess I just threw myself into my music and my studies. So yeah, I think everything comes at a cost. But it’s fine. I made up for it when I got to uni.
Holly: Definitely, that’s true. And it is hard. I mean, whether you’re a gifted student, or whether it’s because it’s harder to make friends, all those things, I think there is only so much time. And sometimes you have to sacrifice a social life. That was the one thing that really stood out to me is that you said, when you got to university, you realize how much free time you had. So what did you end up studying at university? And how did you choose the university? You were going to? What was that whole experience like?
Kevin: So when I was thinking about university, I knew that music was going to be a big part. And my question, I also was very interested in doing psychology. So for a long time, I toyed about doing psychology and music, which would have been more of an academic degree, or doing a more kind of practical music degree. And I got a place at Royal Holloway to go study psychology and music, but in the end, the practical kind of won me over because I was doing music school people were like, you’re gonna let you want to be playing and doing composing. And I was like, You know what, I really love the practical. You know, I am, I am academic, and I’ll be fine. But I’m just going to follow my heart and follow my passion. So that’s why I decided to go ahead and do the practical music degree at Birmingham Conservatoire. And so I got in to do composition. And I was also doing piano as well.
Holly: That’s really amazing. I think so many of us get really bogged down with thinking, Well, what should I do What other people want me to do? what’s expected of me? And how many of us actually go, you know what, I’m going to follow my dream, and then take life as it comes afterwards. So I think that’s actually really, really cool that you chose to do that. And then, after you finished university, I mean, you’ve ended up in a communications job, what were the years like in between finishing uni and ending up in the job you’re in? How did that path happen, really to get you from A to B?
Kevin: When I finished uni, like I think a lot of students, you know, I’ve just done a music degree, which was great, but it there’s no clear career progression, unless you’re going to be a performer, or, you know, a well known composer. And, you know, I just realized that that wasn’t going to be the path that I was going to go down. So after, you know, two months of sitting there watching Netflix I was I really need to do something with my life. And Blind in Business was a charity that kind of really helped in that regard. My dad had come across them in a fare thing that they were doing, like an employment fare in his work, when he got their contact details. So I reached out to them and I said, Look, I need to try and get a job. And so they really helped me with CV writing and interview technique. And at one of their events, I got chatting to somebody from Channel Four. And we had a really good discussion, and he was like, you should apply. And literally, when I got home, a marketing job had come in. And I knew nothing about marketing. But he’d said to me that they would guarantee an interview if you’re disabled. So I was like, Okay, I’m going to I’m going to try and bluff this, because even if I don’t get the job, I think the interview experience is going to be really invaluable. So I did it, I did my research, did a good application, got the interview, learnt a lot about myself, you know, I didn’t speak up enough during the group stage, got some very, very good feedback, and then started looking into marketing, doing my research going on Twitter. And then I just decided to Okay, let’s try and do some volunteering. So I got in touch with a charity, told them about my channel Four experience. And they invited me to go and do an interview and volunteering was my way forward, I learned on the job, literally, I’ve never done a communications qualification. I’ve just learned on the job. And I didn’t leave. So eventually, they gave me a job after about six months.
Holly: That’s absolutely amazing. I love that you just persisted and your persistence ended up turning into an actual job. I think that’s such a really cool story. Because, you know, we talk a lot about volunteering, and I think volunteering has great power to change your life. I know in my own life, I have a really full CV and a lot of that is because I got involved in so many different causes that I was interested in, in voluntary causes. But I love how you’re saying for you It turned from being a being a volunteer and gaining some skills to actually proving that you are an asset to this organization.
Kevin: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think one of the things I learned was just have ideas and see where they can go like be of value to the organization. I when I first went into my interview, there was a there was a website, and there still is it’s called Audio Boom, but a few years ago, it was called AudioBoo and it was very kind of audio focused, very community focused. And I’d been chatting I’d been on the platform a few weeks, somehow ended up being invited to a forum with users, and their new CEO was there. And so we got chatting over a few drinks. And I said, Look, I’ve got an interview at a sight loss charity tomorrow, I think it would be really good if you guys could partner and it would be a really good way for them to promote themselves. And he said, Yeah, sure, no problem. So I went into my interview and I said oh by the way, I’ve just set you guys up with an interview with this CEO. The boss was like, yeah, sure, that sounds great. So I was like, already, from day one, I was like, I’m gonna see how I can be of value. And I think that’s, that’s, you know, you never know, all you’ve got to do is ask, I think networking is so important.
Holly: That is absolutely incredible. And I love how proactive you were in getting something for the organization. So you could come into that interview and be like, this is what I’ve done before you’ve even given me the job. Look what I could do if I had the job. I love that. And now you’re in this job. What kind of adaptations Do you require? Or how would you approach the tasks of your job? I imagined within communication, you’re asked to do quite varied things. So I’m presuming you’re a user of assistive technology. But what else do you make use of? Or how do you use your assistive tech to do your job?
Kevin: So I use JAWS on my computer, that’s a screen reader, mainly like to kind of do all my written content on my blogging, or the copy for the website, and so on. And then I’ve also got an iPhone with voiceover, which I use mainly to sort of browse my social media feeds, because generally, I’m just finding that the apps for Facebook and Twitter in particular, are more accessible for me that way. So and then obviously, I can get notified more easily, in that way. But obviously, it’s quite a visual job as well, you know, photos, and so on are so important in terms of getting content. Initially, when I first started my work a lot, my colleagues helped me out, and I would write the post and be like, Can you help me do photos. And then when I got the job, and, and kind of I’ve been learning, I got the support of Access to Work to get myself a support worker, who helps me with kinda like the more visual elements. So you know, when we’re out on location, doing an event, or, you know, I ask her, can you take a picture of this? Or can we go and film this person. And so she kind of helps with those kind of visual things, making sure we’re all in shot. And we work together that way to kind of get the content out there.
Holly: And do you think that kind of collaboration is beneficial, because you get you know, the use of your tech, as you said, for things like writing where you don’t actually need human support, but then when you do maybe need someone to take a picture or to look at pictures you’ve taken? Do you think that’s really useful for a blind person to have access to those kinds of supports in the workplace?
Kevin: I do think that’s useful. And I think one of the things that we sometimes fall into the trap of as blind people is that we want to be super independent, and do everything ourselves. And the reality is that sometimes it’s just more efficient to get help, and say, You know what, I can’t do this as quickly. But I’m going to be better in my job, more appreciated, get more done, if I get someone else’s help when I need it. So for me, it’s not about, you know, I would never say do this for me all the time, because I’d feel terrible and guilty, and it just wouldn’t be good for my own personal development. But it’s just about, you know, working with someone getting the support, and just saying, you know, sometimes you just need a bit of help. Everybody needs help with something, you know, not all of us are pilots, we need someone to fly us from A to B, right? So we need, we’re all interdependent. And I think when VI, it’s just about saying, you know, can I have a little bit of help here and there. And it just makes you a lot more efficient. Sometimes, in my view.
Holly: I am so glad that you mentioned the word interdependence, because I think we don’t talk about it enough. And interdependence is this idea that as a society, we all rely on one another, you know, a CEO might be at the top of their organization. But if the cleaner never came in their building would be in a terrible state. And if you went to the supermarket and nobody had stocked the shelves, you wouldn’t be able to buy food. So it is totally true that as blind people and I think as disabled people overall, but certainly within the blind community, we have this idea that we must do things ourselves. And I think that really comes from people not believing we’re capable. So we almost feel that we have to prove that we are but then we lose sight of the fact that actually everyone relies on each other. So I know sighted people who aren’t so good at using technology. And in the workplace, they may say, Oh, well, I’ll do a bit more of the paper filing if you don’t mind you know, filling in these forms online for me. So it’s actually really normal for sighted people to rely on each other and to kind of juggle workplace tasks based on strength. So I think sometimes as blind people, we need to embrace that a bit more.
Kevin: Absolutely. And you know, sometimes people have come to me at work, and gone. Oh, Kevin, you’re techie. You know, I don’t know how to do this. Can you help me out? So it’s like, we can all help each other definitely.
Holly: Right. So you really bring your skills to the table as well, that is so great. And I have one question, which isn’t about work, actually, but about your music and kind of your extra interests. So you are still involved in music I believe and can you tell me about some of the cool musical things you’ve done outside of your job? Since you’ve been an adult? Because I think you’ve done some interesting stuff.
Kevin: Yeah, sure. So yeah, definitely. I’m still very much involved in music. I joined the Para orchestra a couple of years ago, and the Para orchestra was set up by Charles Hazelwood to kind of get disabled musicians, more work, and more recognized, because that’s one of the biggest barriers in the music industry is that disabled musicians that are just not getting the work. And it was set up to play at the closing of the Paralympics. And ever since. And the orchestra is just doing great stuff. So I was really honored to be accepted as one of the members a couple of years ago. So we’ve done a couple of things with them, I’ve done a couple of things with them. And then I’m also a member of the Inner Vision Orchestra, which is Britain’s first orchestra of blind musicians. And one of the best projects I did with them again, a couple of years ago, was going to India, and we collaborated with other blind Indian musicians and played in Delhi, and Mumbai. So those experiences were were, you know, really amazing.
Holly: That is really cool to have been able to use your interest to travel and to contribute to this team, you know, because being an orchestra is part of a team. So I think that’s honestly amazing. That’s really cool. I’m not a musician in the slightest. So I’m always slightly humbled by all the blind people I know who are, because unfortunately, I did not inherit that genetic trait. So common and blind people.
Kevin: You know, it’s interesting that there are so many blind people that are into music. Somebody was at a conference a few years ago, was saying that they did this study about blind musicians having perfect pitch. So they have the ability to hear a note and know exactly what it is, which, normally apparently is only found in one in 10,000 people, but they did this study and 47% of blind people can do it, which is just very interesting. I think it’s something about how we use our hearing a lot more obviously, you know, I’m not saying that our hearings, you know, a super sense or anything like that, but it’s just that we use it and we tune into things a little bit more naturally. Because, you know, sound is our world.
Holly: Yeah, I think that’s definitely true. And I wish it was something I could say I can do, but sadly not.
Kevin: It’s fine. You can do plenty of other stuff. Holly, you know, so it’s all good.
Holly: Well, yeah, we all have different strengths.
Kevin: Absolutely.
Holly: So one final question is, what would you say to either a young blind person or a blind person who’s just lost their vision? And who’s feeling a bit lost about their future in terms of their career?
Kevin: I think I would just say to them, try out different things. Ask for help. From an advice from people that you know, you know, it’s so valuable to just reach out and ask for tips from people. And you never know, you know, what’s going to come from that. I’ll give you an example. A few years ago, I began on AudioBoom, I was listening to a content producer, you know, radio documentary maker, and her stuff was very interesting. So I just reached out to her and said I really love your content. And she got in touch and said, Oh, you know, let’s meet up and stuff like that, and have a coffee. And it was just a really valuable thing to be able to chat with someone and she gave me some tips. And now we’ve got that that kind of relationship, that she’s like, anything that you do, just send that across and I’ll have a listen and she’s given me feedback on my work because you know, funnily enough I am in communications, I do music but one of my my passions to one day get into would be, you know, radio journalism, or, or working in radio, because I just absolutely love it. And I did some work experience with the BBC a few years ago. But going back to that question, you know, if you’re not sure about your career, just try different things. Ask for tips and advice from other people and just keep persisting. I think the reality is, you know, it’s It’s not an easy ride these days, but I think just keep knocking on those doors. And sometimes your second option might be the best option to get you started. You know, you might not always want to work in the sight loss sector but if that’s what’s gonna get you your CV boosted fine you know, take your second option to build yourself up. I think that’s really important as long as because once you’re in Yeah, once you’ve got your foot in the door, once you’ve got that experience it becomes so much easier because you’ve got a track record to show people.
Holly: I absolutely love that advice. I think that is really really great advice and will help people. So lastly if people want to connect with you where can they find you online?
Kevin: Sure, so people can follow me on twitter at KevinSatizabal read the description. And I’m also to be found on clubhouse these days as well. So if you join that’s another way that you can connect with me as well.
Holly: Yes, clubhouse is booming. And I am @CatchTheseWords on clubhouse which shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. And it was really great to talk to you about your experiences, both in your life and in work.
Kevin: Oh, thank you so much for inviting me, Holly.
Holly: Yeah, of course.
Holly: You have been listening to working blind. If you like the podcast, remember to subscribe on any of your favorite podcasting apps. If you want to connect with me, you can follow me on Twitter or clubhouse at CatchTheseWords. That’s c-a-t-c-h-t-h-e-s-e-w-o-r-d-s. You can also find me on the web at catchthesewords.com
All episodes of this podcast are transcribed on my website. If you want to help fund transcription costs go to paypal.me/catchthesewords
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